INDIA'S BEST COLLEGES, INSTITUTES and UNIVERSITIES
Bangalore-based historian and writer Ramachandra Guha spoke to TSI's Satish Chapparike about the many challenges that India faces. Excerpts from the interview...
Do you really think Indians lack a sense of history?
One cannot and should not make generalisations about a whole nationality: Indians are like this, foreigners are like that. But we certainly need much more historical sense. History is part of modern society. Young Indians are curious about history. May be in the past they were not. But now they are. They want to know how this country was made, the major leaders and the controversies involving the figures who created India. It is a mistake to think that we are not interested in history. If we are not interested in history, why would a 900-page book like India after Gandhi be translated in Kannada? Also in the pipeline are translations of the book in Malayalam, Tamil and other languages. I think there is a growing interest in history in India.
What about the political abuse of history in India?
That is indeed a problem. History is susceptible to abuse or misuse by political parties. Scholars must be careful in this regard. As far as Indian scholars are concerned, I think they are doing a honest and serious job. But the political parties jump in. They either want to present a one-sided interpretation or if someone comes up with book which doesn't suit them, they ban it. That is a very unhealthy atmosphere. For example, Shiv Sena threatened the author of Shivaji (James W Lane) and the Congress threatened the Spanish author who wrote a book on Sonia Gandhi (Javier Moro). But on the whole, Indians are getting increasingly curious about history. They want to understand history in greater complexity and diversity.
Do you think we got Independence at the right moment?
The important thing is that we got it. Yes, things could have been different, but we were prepared for Independence. Of course, some mistakes were made. The loss of life during Partition was extremely tragic. Perhaps the political class should have been wiser, not all, some of them. For example, the Viceroy was advised to deploy more army detachments in Punjab region; he failed to do that. So there was more violence in Punjab. Gandhiji appealed to Jinnah for peace but he refused to sign the peace deal. Some mistakes were made, but I don't think we were not prepared for Independence.
Your take on socio-economic development of India in the last six decades'
I talked about it in my book. I wrote that in India 50 per cent democracy exists. That means we have achieved 50 per cent success. We have a free press, we hold regular elections and we have stayed united as a country. Now we are a growing economy too. On the other side, there are growing inequalities, decline of the political system, environmental degradation and a great urban-rural divide. As an experiment in nation-building, India is only a modest success. The important thing in history is to recognise the gray shades, and not just the black and white. The truth is India is full of contradiction. Some parts are doing well. Others are doing terribly. Democracy in India is robust. For example, we hold this complex election in which 400-500 million people vote. It is a phenomenal exercise. We do it better than most western countries. That is very impressive. But political and other institutions are decaying.
Do you want India to become a superpower?
Not me. Some people have a kind of inferiority complex. That stems from comparison with the West. Some of us think that to overcome it we must become as strong as the US or China. Some sections of the political, media and business elite in New Delhi and the young middle class in general want India to take on the world and become a superpower. But my thinking is different. I want India to be more at peace with itself.
What about the China-India race?
The good thing is that we have put the border war behind us. In the 1950s and 1960s, after that defeat in the war, we had a huge complex about China. We said they are unreliable and that they had betrayed us. Slowly we are evolving a healthy relationship with China. But there are a few unhealthy aspects in this relationship. For one, we have not put enough conditions for the export of raw material from India to China. Not just iron ore from Karnataka, but also bauxite from Orissa and central India. Unregulated mining has wreaked havoc. Forget the corruption; think about environmental and social problems, and all these for feeding the hunger of the Chinese economy. The Chinese are destroying our environment and protecting theirs. In this respect we are very short-sighted. These are the kinds of things we have to be very careful about, not the military side. We are not going to have a war with China.
What do you make of India's disturbed neighbourhood?
The developments in Pakistan and Afghanistan will have a long-term effect on us. We live in a very unstable neighbourhood. Nepal is also highly unstable: are the Maoists there really interested in the democratic process or do they want to go back to the jungle? We don't know. Sri Lanka is just coming out of civil war. Pakistan is on the brink. We have to be very alert.
The threat of red terror is worsening by the day'
I don't like the phrase 'red terror'. These are all catchy media phrases. Again, this is a serious, complex problem and its roots lie in deprivation of the tribal population whom the government has ignored for decades. But at the same time I don't approve of the violence at all. The Maoists of India would be well advised to enter the democratic process. They have to abandon armed struggle and fight elections. If they want to change the policies, they must do so through elections and by entering the government. At the moment violence is taking a heavy toll.
Keeping these things in mind, isn't it still relevant to ask: will India survive?
I posed that question in my book because everyone thought that India will break or it will come under military rule or there will be a civil war. I have to ask, why does India survive? Why this contradiction and puzzle called India, how did it survive? I think India will stumble along. We are not going to become a superpower but neither are we ever going to collapse.
What are the future projects that you are working on?
I have just edited an anthology of 150 years of Indian political writing by personalities ranging from Raja Rammohan Roy to Jayaprakash Narayan. The most interesting thinkers of India writing about gender, caste, nationalism, language, economic policy will be in this book. Some of them are, of course well-known people like Gandhi and Nehru, while there are also lesser known thinkers like Tarabai Shinde and Kamaladevi Chattopadhyay. The book will be out in October. I am also working on a new biography of Mahatma Gandhi. It will take six to seven years to complete.
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Bangalore-based historian and writer Ramachandra Guha spoke to TSI's Satish Chapparike about the many challenges that India faces. Excerpts from the interview...
Do you really think Indians lack a sense of history?
One cannot and should not make generalisations about a whole nationality: Indians are like this, foreigners are like that. But we certainly need much more historical sense. History is part of modern society. Young Indians are curious about history. May be in the past they were not. But now they are. They want to know how this country was made, the major leaders and the controversies involving the figures who created India. It is a mistake to think that we are not interested in history. If we are not interested in history, why would a 900-page book like India after Gandhi be translated in Kannada? Also in the pipeline are translations of the book in Malayalam, Tamil and other languages. I think there is a growing interest in history in India.
What about the political abuse of history in India?
That is indeed a problem. History is susceptible to abuse or misuse by political parties. Scholars must be careful in this regard. As far as Indian scholars are concerned, I think they are doing a honest and serious job. But the political parties jump in. They either want to present a one-sided interpretation or if someone comes up with book which doesn't suit them, they ban it. That is a very unhealthy atmosphere. For example, Shiv Sena threatened the author of Shivaji (James W Lane) and the Congress threatened the Spanish author who wrote a book on Sonia Gandhi (Javier Moro). But on the whole, Indians are getting increasingly curious about history. They want to understand history in greater complexity and diversity.
Do you think we got Independence at the right moment?
The important thing is that we got it. Yes, things could have been different, but we were prepared for Independence. Of course, some mistakes were made. The loss of life during Partition was extremely tragic. Perhaps the political class should have been wiser, not all, some of them. For example, the Viceroy was advised to deploy more army detachments in Punjab region; he failed to do that. So there was more violence in Punjab. Gandhiji appealed to Jinnah for peace but he refused to sign the peace deal. Some mistakes were made, but I don't think we were not prepared for Independence.
Your take on socio-economic development of India in the last six decades'
I talked about it in my book. I wrote that in India 50 per cent democracy exists. That means we have achieved 50 per cent success. We have a free press, we hold regular elections and we have stayed united as a country. Now we are a growing economy too. On the other side, there are growing inequalities, decline of the political system, environmental degradation and a great urban-rural divide. As an experiment in nation-building, India is only a modest success. The important thing in history is to recognise the gray shades, and not just the black and white. The truth is India is full of contradiction. Some parts are doing well. Others are doing terribly. Democracy in India is robust. For example, we hold this complex election in which 400-500 million people vote. It is a phenomenal exercise. We do it better than most western countries. That is very impressive. But political and other institutions are decaying.
Do you want India to become a superpower?
Not me. Some people have a kind of inferiority complex. That stems from comparison with the West. Some of us think that to overcome it we must become as strong as the US or China. Some sections of the political, media and business elite in New Delhi and the young middle class in general want India to take on the world and become a superpower. But my thinking is different. I want India to be more at peace with itself.
What about the China-India race?
The good thing is that we have put the border war behind us. In the 1950s and 1960s, after that defeat in the war, we had a huge complex about China. We said they are unreliable and that they had betrayed us. Slowly we are evolving a healthy relationship with China. But there are a few unhealthy aspects in this relationship. For one, we have not put enough conditions for the export of raw material from India to China. Not just iron ore from Karnataka, but also bauxite from Orissa and central India. Unregulated mining has wreaked havoc. Forget the corruption; think about environmental and social problems, and all these for feeding the hunger of the Chinese economy. The Chinese are destroying our environment and protecting theirs. In this respect we are very short-sighted. These are the kinds of things we have to be very careful about, not the military side. We are not going to have a war with China.
What do you make of India's disturbed neighbourhood?
The developments in Pakistan and Afghanistan will have a long-term effect on us. We live in a very unstable neighbourhood. Nepal is also highly unstable: are the Maoists there really interested in the democratic process or do they want to go back to the jungle? We don't know. Sri Lanka is just coming out of civil war. Pakistan is on the brink. We have to be very alert.
The threat of red terror is worsening by the day'
I don't like the phrase 'red terror'. These are all catchy media phrases. Again, this is a serious, complex problem and its roots lie in deprivation of the tribal population whom the government has ignored for decades. But at the same time I don't approve of the violence at all. The Maoists of India would be well advised to enter the democratic process. They have to abandon armed struggle and fight elections. If they want to change the policies, they must do so through elections and by entering the government. At the moment violence is taking a heavy toll.
Keeping these things in mind, isn't it still relevant to ask: will India survive?
I posed that question in my book because everyone thought that India will break or it will come under military rule or there will be a civil war. I have to ask, why does India survive? Why this contradiction and puzzle called India, how did it survive? I think India will stumble along. We are not going to become a superpower but neither are we ever going to collapse.
What are the future projects that you are working on?
I have just edited an anthology of 150 years of Indian political writing by personalities ranging from Raja Rammohan Roy to Jayaprakash Narayan. The most interesting thinkers of India writing about gender, caste, nationalism, language, economic policy will be in this book. Some of them are, of course well-known people like Gandhi and Nehru, while there are also lesser known thinkers like Tarabai Shinde and Kamaladevi Chattopadhyay. The book will be out in October. I am also working on a new biography of Mahatma Gandhi. It will take six to seven years to complete.
For More IIPM Info, Visit below mentioned IIPM articles.
Arindam Chaudhuri: Movie time for Kapil Sibal
Delhi University Students' Union (DUSU): Students' Unions can not be banned
The hunt for hostel and paying guest (PG) accommodation for students
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